Lifan LF150-A BlackHawk or Suzuki Shogun or Honda XRM110 - Sinong mas ok?

[whitebear]

Please Help.

I'm considering buying a Lifan BlackHawk. Please help. I'm comparing it to Suzuki Shogun and Honda XRM110. Ok ba Lifan? Hindi ba sya madaling masira? Please give me some insights about its features. Di ko kasi maintindihan nga technical specifications na nakikita ko when I researched about it.

What about Shogun and XRM? Sinong mas maganda?

Kung ako po kayo, anong bibilhin nyo?

[duron850ph]

I'd buy a Suzuki Shogun 125R, yung bagong labas ngayon, malakas ang makina, na-try namin, malaki pa ang storage area under the seat. yung tires lang ang problema Leo Tires, pero you can change it naman ang buy respectable tires na lang.

[whitebear]

Akala ko kapag mas mataas na cc mas malakas na makina at mas mabilis. 150cc yung lifan di ba tapos yung shogun 125cc lang. i'm confused. Mas malakas ba makina ng shogun?

[sinopaediako]

whitebear,

you were right in your analogy. displacement measured by cc is directly porportional to power. but you also have to consider the load. kung mabigat yung motorcycle, even with a higher displacement, pwede syang lumabas na mas mabagal. in effect, yung mas maliit ang displacement pero magaang, pwedeng lumabas na mas mabilis. another consideration is the driver. cruiser bikes such as lifan black hawk, are not made for speed. they're more on endurance. meaning, if one often travels to remote areas, then a cruiser is most appropriate for him. tougher engine for long distance riding and they give you more comfort. on the other hand, if one rides within metromanila, more than riding to provices, then a smaller motorcycle is more suitable. suzuki shogun 125r is really fast. i haven't tried is yet, but models with "r" are for racing. which means it must really run fast with minimal modifications. honda xrm 100 was designed for dual sport. meaning, on and off road. i myself is an owner of one. i have altered the features of my bike simply because i use it on road. it's initial design is more for off road as it acquired its features from its predecessor, the honda xlr. if i go on treking, i have to place back some parts to make it suitable for the road. but most of the time i set it up for on road.

hope i've somehow given you ideas to help you out with you dilemma.

sino pa, eh di ako

[whitebear]

Hmmm.. I see. So that's how we measure it. What about the durability of these bikes? I'm not so much about the speed actually. I'm even planning just to run at 65kph max because I believe masyadong delikado nakamotor. I'm planning to use it to go to work everyday. I work in Makati and going home at San Mateo Rizal. Gonna travel via EDSA. Malayo na ba yun to consider a cruiser?

Sino pinakamatibay sa tatlo?
Ano pagkakaiba ng off-road at on-road?
I know chinese ang Lifan and japan ang honda and suzuki, but I heard Lifan is the best-selling bike sa MotorTrade sa amin (sabi lang po nung ahente). Does it mean happy ang mga Lifan users kaya bumebenta?

What's the difference between drum break and disc break?

Front breaks lang pala ang shogun, di ba disadvantage yun?

Ano maganda, yung may clutch o wala. Di ba mas madaling paandarin yung walang clutch? walang clutch yung shogun and xrm di ba?

What about considering Weather conditions, as in, floods everywhere. Sinong mas ok sa tatlo.

I'm so sorry for being so dumb when it comes to this. I really appreciate your info guys. Please help coz I can't decide.

[froilanr]

Originally posted by whitebear
I'm even planning just to run at 65kph max because I believe masyadong delikado nakamotor. I'm planning to use it to go to work everyday.

Sino pinakamatibay sa tatlo?
Ano pagkakaiba ng off-road at on-road?
I know chinese ang Lifan and japan ang honda and suzuki

What's the difference between drum break and disc break?

Front breaks lang pala ang shogun, di ba disadvantage yun?

Ano maganda, yung may clutch o wala. Di ba mas madaling paandarin yung walang clutch? walang clutch yung shogun and xrm di ba?

What about considering Weather conditions, as in, floods everywhere. Sinong mas ok sa tatlo.

I'm so sorry for being so dumb when it comes to this. I really appreciate your info guys. Please help coz I can't decide.

IMHO durable ang Japanese made kaysa China made siempre. I know yung Honda XRM is made in the Philippines, pero Japenese ang technology siempre.

Oks na ang 110cc, pero mas-ok ang 125cc siempre dahil mas-powerful and mas-mabilis ang acceleration kung kailangan hatawin or overtake ng cars. No need to setup (I think) ang 125cc kahit stock lang. Lalo na dika naman nakikipag-racing.

Off road ay sa mga di spalto, at cement na roads, (like yung lupa at bako bagkong pavements), also like mountains na di naman very inclined. ON Road naman roads na cemented or naka spalto na roads at usually mapinong roads.

Yung alam ko sa disc brake ay meron siyang disc plate at disc pad. I don't know ang technical na explanations nito. While yung drum brake e siempre walang disk plate at disc pads.

What do you mean front brakes lang ang shogun? You mean yung rear brake is foot break? Kung ganito di naman delikado basta alalay lang sa preno. Yung huwag biglaan ang pag preno para dika mag-slide at balance dapat ang pag preno. Gamitin mo ang front and rear.

Yung xrm walang clutch. I don't know yung shogun. Madaling gamitin ang walang clutch or automatic ang clutch. Actually dati akong gumagamit ng scooter, pero di naman ako gaanong nahirapan gumamit ng manual transmission like my XRM. Ngayon almost 2 months na akong naka xrm nasasanay narin sa pag change gear (apak sa gearshift pedal). Pero kung may clutch lever baka mahirapan ako. I think mas mahirap gamitin ang may clutch lalo na kung first time mo (like me too.)

IMO lang sa meron clutch (correct me nalang if I'm wrong):
Kung meron clutch mas-mabilis ang acceleration, kasi nako-control ang acceleration, at kasi ang mga ibang nakikipag-racing e pinapalagyan ng cluctch ang kanilang honda xrm. At I think mas-tataas ang topspeed (yung naka setup) kapag may clutch.

IMHO again. Considering sa floods, I think parehas silang ok, kasi malalaki ang gulong. Mataas ang ground clearance. Correct me if I'm wrong din.

I chosed XRM kasi sa amin maraming rough roads at humps.

Ok lang yan. Maganda naman ang nagtatanong kaysa nag-ma-marunong diba? I'm a newbie actually like you sa cubs/underbones like shogun/xrm.

Hope this helps (HTH)!

[anthony_bud]

Siguro mas maganda para sayo ang XRM kasi pwede on-road use at pwede off-road.

Ang shogun kasi mababa lang gaya ng Wave, ang XRM mataas, lalo na pag naglagay ka pa ng lifter. E sabi mo namang gusto mo lang magpatakbo ng 65kph, kayang-kaya na yan ng XRM 108 cc.

Kung ako tatanungin, XRM na lang ako. Malaki talaga kasi tiwala ko pag Honda.

[anthony_bud]

Pahabol po.

Hindi porket XRM ang motor ko e yun ang suggestion ko. Natest drive ko na rin kasi ang Dream, Wave (gaya ng Shogun sa porma) pero mas comfortable ako sa XRM kasi parang malaking motor pa rin ang gamit mo.

[Rage]

Sir Whitebear,

Please visit the below thread for reference on LIFAN Blackhawk.

http://motorcyclephilippines.com/for...&threadid=4321

I am a "happy" LIFAN Blackhawk Rider... Happy in the sense that guwapo kasi porma mukhang Harley and low-cost considering na maporma at equally good naman kasi European Standard

[sinopaediako]

whitebear,

i forgot to mention, in my last post in this forum, that i really don't want to be biased since i am an xrm owner. you wish to be enlightened on what to buy between the three, that's why i'm giving you my inputs. regarding you questions, well here are my ideas:

1. regarding durability, i'd say, they're almost the same. thou, i don't own a shogun nor a black hawk, i'm pretty sure that they all stand the same when it comes to durability. it really depends on how you'll take care of the bike. since you mentioned that you only intend to run 65kph max, i pressumed that you're the kind of guy who'll take good care of his bike. which means that durability, in your case, is not much of a problem. for as long as you follow religiously the proper ways of maintaining you bike, then, no problem. going to makati from san mateo is more than 20km. i'm pretty sure of that. back and forth will mean travelling more than 40km per day. if you're after fuel efficiency, i suggest you take a look at the brochures of these bikes. according to black hawk's brochure, fuel efficiency is >=2.2 liters/100km. this means that it runs 45.45km/liter of gas. i'm not sure with shogun and with xrm. sorry but it's not written in the handbook. try to ask other users of xrm. but smaller bikes usually consumes 1.8l/ liters/100km or 55.56km/liter of gas.

2. difference between on and off-road bikes. off-road bikes usually have high ground clearance. street bikes or on-road bikes have lower ground clearnce. the reason for this is, off-road bikes are for dirt roads and climbing or treking or coarse roads while street bikes are for hugging asphalt or concrete roads.

3. honda is from japan. but honda have ventured in other asian countries for the manufacture of their bikes. reason: japan has high cost of labour.

4. disc brakes are more reliable than drum brakes. that's the reason why even on cars, most manufacturers put the disc brakes in front first rather that at the back. front brakes in cars are the primary brakes. with a disc brake, you don't need to worry even if you pass through a flooded street. the water will, almost instantly, dry up, while in drum brake, you need to pump the brake pedal several times before the water dries up. that's why, other riders put holes in the brake drum cover. that's to ventilate the drum and speed up the drying time in case water comes in it. it's a disadvantage if a drum brake is installed in front of a motorcycle.

5. using a motorcycle with manual clutch gives more control on the rev before the releasing the clutch. this is really good in racing especially when you need to maintain a high rev before changing gears. if you're after ease in driving, i strongly suggest an automatic clutch such as that of xrm, wave, dream, shogun and other cub models. one disadvantage of using an automatic clutch is the wear and tear of clutch lining. the natural wear and tear of clutch lining is higher in automatic clutch than in manual clutch. why and how? sample scenario: when driving through a hump and decreasing speed, and the rider doesn't shift to lower gear and squeezes the throttle to gain speed, the pressure on the clutch lining is heavier. yet, the engine will not stop from running. it's almost the same as using a manual clutch, driving through a hump and decreasing speed, and squeezing the throttle to gain speed and squeezing the clutch lever half-way just to maintain the motor running. in other words, half-clutching. so it's important to know when to shift to lower gear when using an automatic clutch. with manual clutch, if the rider will not do a half-clutch, the engine will cease from running.

6. for bad road conditions and flood, i suggest to get a bike with high ground clearance. lifter, to some is the answer. but i wont suggest that. the proper modification is to use longer rear shock absorbers.

i hope this info will somehow enlighten you further.

sino pa, eh di ako/sino pa nga ba

[whitebear]

Rage,

You're a happy Lifan BlackHawk user. Please give us all the things you love about the BlackHawk. You mentioned its European Standard, di ba chinese made yun. Pumasa na ba talaga sya sa standards nila? Any website that we can look into that will prove it? I'm really concern about the reliability of these bikes that's why I'm asking. Ok lang kung walang ibang info about it passing the European Standard. Baka masyadong istorbo pero maganda sana kung maipo-prove mo kasi proven na daw ang reliability ng Honda and Suzuki eh. I read the thread you gave, its more about the Cyclone. Yun lang ba ang pagkakaiba ng Cyclone and BlackHawk, kickstarter lang? I saw a Cyclone kanina when I visited MotorTrade again, mas malaki sya at mas pogi. Mas mahal din. Ba't mas gusto mo ang BlackHawk?

To sinopaediako and froilanr, thanks sa mga detailed answers sa questions ko. May tanong pa ako kung pwede sana. Some bikes have both kickstarter and electric starter. Yung Cyclone kasi electric starter lang. Gano ba kadalas masira yung electric starter. Di ba reliable na electric starter lang? Mga kotse ganun di ba? Saka para bang kotse yun na puwedeng itulak para pumalya. Another question is the cooling system. Mas maganda ba ang water cooling kaysa air cooling or oil? ano advantages and disadvantages ng mga cooling system na 'to? Saka nga pala sa paggamit ng motor sa highways like EDSA, di ba hinuhuli ng mga pulis yung mga maliliit na motor like xrm and shogun?

Dami ko talaga tanong no? sori po sa inyo...

[sinopaediako]

whitebear,

i'm so glad, you appreciate our concern regarding your dilemma on buying a new bike. here are my answers to your questions:

1. i'm not really sure if cyclone does not have a kick starter. very seldom do you see a motorcycle without kick starter. electric starters in motorcycles are there to ease up the cranking of the engine to make it run. a bike without a kick starter doesn't have any back-up starter. what if the battery is running low on power, patay na. cranking the engine of a motorcyle has the same principle as that of an automobile. pwedeng itulak, tapos i-force start (kadyot). but with the absence of a kick starter worsens the issue. hindi naman ganun kabilis masira ang electric starter. but as i have mentioned, if battery is running low on power, one cannot start the engine by using the electric starter. one of my peers had a problem before with electric starter. the chain connecting the starter an the engine broke and got stuck up. the engine wont run anymore. this is a very rare incident, but it happened.

2. big bikes such as black hawk, as i have mentioned previously are made for endurance. travelling far would mean greater risk of overheating. while it really depends if one will not allow the bike to rest or give ample time for the bike to cool down a bit, putting a water cooling system is definitely an advantage over air cooling system. oil cooling system, according to my source, only reduces 2% of the oil temperature. water cooling system recudes the engine temperature better than oil cooling system. oil is pumped out of the engine, goes through the oil cooling system chambers through fittings and hoses, then goes back to the engine, mainit pa rin. another disadvantage of oil cooling system is if ever the fittings leak. oil will be pumped out the the engine, never goes back. regarding water cooling system, it's quite obvious that it's placed there to aid the engine regarding temperature. siguro dahil sa laki ng makina kaya kailangan ng water cooling system.

3. hindi bawal dumaan sa EDSA ang smaller type motorcycles like xrm, wave, shogun, or the likes. for as long as the rider is wearing helmet. that's for sure. kung bicycle nga pwede, motorcycles pa.

di bale dami tanong, dami rin naman sagot. bwahahahahahaha...

sino pa, eh di ako/sino pa nga ba

[whitebear]

Sinopaediako,

Cyclone nga yung walang kickstart. Meron ako nakita, Loncin Terminator 200cc. Ok talaga sya. May alarm, monoshock, may kickstart, and super ganda ng itsura. What do you think about it? Kung Lifan kasi kukunin ko, I think it is proven to be reliable na. Dami na rin kasi gumagamit nun dito sa'min saka sa Marikina. Kaya lang ang may kickstart na Lifan is yung BlackHawk. Di ko masyado gusto ang design nya. Mas ok talaga ang design ng Cyclone. What do you think? Will I get a Cyclone, a BlackHawk, or a Loncin Terminator?

Do you know how reliable the Terminator 200cc is?

E sino bang expert? Sino pa, e di ikaw...

[whitebear]

oo nga pala, yung Cyclone, Water-cooling sya. Yung Blackhawk, air-cooled lang. Yung Terminator, oil-cooled.

[sinopaediako]

i have nothing against oil coolers. but if i were to choose between oil cooler and water cooler, i'd go for water cooler. very minimal ang naitutulong ng oil cooler. according to a service engineer who happens to be a friend of mine, around 2% lang ang nailalamig ng oil kung oil cooler. unlike water cooler, mas mababa ang temperature ng engine. kung walang kick starter ang cyclone, problema nga yan. wala kang back-up starter. pano nga kung mahina yung battery mo? yung loncin naman, wala pa kong balita dyan. pero, may mga tricycles na gumagamit nyan. yung iba pa nga skygo. pero loncin still have to prove it's durability. if i were you, i'd put more weight on the durability over appearance. di baleng hindi masyadong appealing, durable naman. madali namang pagandahin ang bike kung gugustuhin at gagastosan. pero yung engine, mahirap patibayin.

sino pa, eh di ako/sino pa nga ba

[whitebear]

Sinopaediako,

Great advise! Which do you think is more important, having a kickstart or having a water-cooling system? kasi yung blackhawk may kickstart pero air-cooled lang. Yung cyclone naman, water-cooled pero walang kickstart.

With regards to the Terminator 200cc, one member of this forum is happy with it. In fact, he bought another loncin motor because he's very pleased with its performance. I heard also that this was the brand that was chosen to sponsor the 28th Olympic game in China last 2002.

Hirap talaga pumili. Ayoko kasi magkamali.

Haay!

[naner2k]

have you seen motorstar predator and motorstar navigator? suggestion yan kc sa kin dun sa other thread.

[sinopaediako]

hirap talaga nyan dre. especially if you have the fund and you're not yet decided on what to get. but better safe than sorry. tama pa rin 'yang ginagawa mo. tanong tanong muna para sigurado. i can see that you're more inclined to getting a bigger bike. that's fine. re your first question: as for me, i'd rather choose a bike with kickstarter without the cooling system over a bike with cooling system without a kickstarter. why? kasi, you can always modify your bike to have a cooling system. (oil cooled that is) but then again, it's easier to change the battery than to install a cooling system. gulo noh. advise ko sa'yo, get the one with cooling system without a kickstarter. re your second question: to whoever told you he's happy with his loncin bike, please don't take this against me. but it's quite normal to be happy with what you have since it's still new. on the presumtion that it's still new. you'll see it's durability when it ages. another thing is, are the parts available? with honda, yamaha, kawasaki and lifan, i can tell you that their parts are very much available. i'm not sure with other brands. consider this also.

sino pa, eh di ako/sino pa nga ba

[whitebear]

Sinopaediako,

Well, well, well...

I think I'll just get a Lifan Cyclone if that's the case. Babantayan ko na lang siguro yung batery nya para sa electric start issue nya. At least, water-cooled na sya so di ko na problema ang over-heat during summer. Reliable naman na kasi sya and I'll take your word regarding its parts availability.

Thank you very much Mr. Expert.

Sino pa? E di ikaw

[whitebear]

Naner2k,

I guess I'll just settle with Lifan Cyclone. Wala pa kasi ako tiwala sa ibang brands eh. Baka mahirap maghanap ng parts. Lifan kasi ang the next best brand next to japanese motorcycles. So i'll just settle with a known reliable brand than the others. Nakabili ka na ba? If I were you, mag- Lifan ka na lang din siguro. Mahirap kasi mag-maintain ng motor lalo na kapag beginners.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[sinopaediako]

no problem bro. good luck sa pagkuha mo ng bagong bike. let me know soon sa nabili mo na. san ba loc mo? may ym ka ba? pm mo sa 'kin.

[naner2k]

whitebear. maghihintay pa ko hangang december. dun pa lang mabubuo pera ko eh. pero mukhang uuwi na ko sa lifan. eh wala naman motorstar dito sa min eh. so kukuha ka na ba ng cyclone? post mo dito ha. hintay ka namin.

sinopaediako. what's the brand and model of your bike?



nane2k

[sinopaediako]

i have an xrm. the pic is posted here. check it out. btw. i'm selling it.

[whitebear]

Naner2k,

No problem. I might buy it on November. I'm not in a hurry naman eh. Although I have the budget already, I still need to get a license. Isasabay ko na sa non-pro license ko para isang kuhaan na lang. The reason I'm getting a bike lang naman is to have a means of transpo when I get a 1 am shift sa work. Di pa naman ngayon. Don't worry, I'll give you a feedback about it.

Sinopaediako,

San mateo rizal ako. Pero I'll get it from MotorTrade sa marikina. I'll let you guys know pag nakabili na ako. I noticed you're selling your XRM. Di ba sya ok?

[naner2k]

thanks whitebear! mas excited pa ata ako sa yo ha! hehe



sinopaediako,

bro, cruiser kc gusto ko eh. binebenta mo xrm mo, bibili ka ba ng iba?




naner2k