Meron ba sa inyo dito mga gud ppl alam na website tungkol sa mga lumang public utility vehicles gaya ng Chrysler/Mitsubishi Cimarron 1-Tonner; Ford Fiera 1st , 2nd and 4th Gen; Toyota Tamaraw 1st Gen. Gusto ko sana malaman ang mga specs ng mga makina ng mga ito. Alam ko ang Cimarron me Saturn 1.4 liter, ang Tamaraw ay 3K 1.3 Liter, at ang Ford ay yung Kent Series 1100 at 1300cc, Fiera IV ay may 2.5 liter n/a Diesel from Mazda. Balak ko sana mag-restore ng isa sa mga to someday. Gusto ko sana yung full authentic resto, ayaw ko yung Fiera na may 12R.

Eto mga spec na gusto ko malaman:
Bore x Stroke
Hp @ rpm
Torque @ rpm
Gear ratios: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th...5th
Final Drive Ratio

tsaka, anybody here na may alam dun sa Trakbayan?

thanx in advance.

Trakbayan kamo? Ako may alam diyan. Gawa ng DMG yun back in the late 70's. Mukhang Cimarron but with an aircooled VW engine in the back. I have an original Trakbayan aluminum signage right here beside my computer. Isa lang 'to sa mga VW memorabilias ko.

If you want to restore one, I can hook you up with the parts that you'll need. Kung trip mo mag-restore, try mo mag-restore ng Sakbayan (a.k.a. Australian Country Buggy).

GSChan,

Thanks for your reply.

Actually, I think the Trakbayan had the VW Bettle engine fitted up front. This was really ingenious because with the flat-4 configuration of the engine sitting under the driver's and front passenger's bench, space was very efficiently utilized. The main problem with the whole idea was that the VW Beetle engine was not built to haul heavy loads. It had a meager compression ratio of 7:1 and the gearing available at the time was just not low enough to help the measly torque output. Many people claim the design died out because of the fwd config which caused problems when the rear was loaded with passengers. I beg to differ because the DMG engineers did a good job of biasing the weight of the vehicle way ahead of the front axle.

I am not yet ready to do the resto that I plan to do at the moment. I was just asking around to have a better idea of what to do. Also, it's fun talking shop with fellow gearheads.

O/T gilbert

do you have an idea how much would a fully restored Kubelwegen convertible will fetch sa market natin?

back to topic..

ano yung service dati ng mga PLDT? volks engine din yun alam ko pero body custom made na dito.

Kubelwagen! Wow, I was thinking more along the lines of the Germany-sourced Sakbayan. Among the 3: Australian, Brazillian, and German, the latter had better specs (as expected) than the other 2. Too bad, VW-Germany stopped producing the Beetle earlier than the rest, forcing DMG-Pilipinas to source its components from Brazil.

Originally posted by Initial_Drift
Meron ba sa inyo dito mga gud ppl alam na website tungkol sa mga lumang public utility vehicles gaya ng Chrysler/Mitsubishi Cimarron 1-Tonner; Ford Fiera 1st , 2nd and 4th Gen; Toyota Tamaraw 1st Gen. Gusto ko sana malaman ang mga specs ng mga makina ng mga ito. Alam ko ang Cimarron me Saturn 1.4 liter, ang Tamaraw ay 3K 1.3 Liter, at ang Ford ay yung Kent Series 1100 at 1300cc, Fiera IV ay may 2.5 liter n/a Diesel from Mazda. Balak ko sana mag-restore ng isa sa mga to someday. Gusto ko sana yung full authentic resto, ayaw ko yung Fiera na may 12R.

thanx in advance.

Initial_Drift>>

FYI:

The Mitsu Cimmaron has a 1.6 Neptune engine

The Ford fiera uses a 1.3 OHV Kent engine

The VW-DMG came out with "Sakbayan"(carlike humvee) models too


I love ford engines. I have the specs of the FORD engines at home. Did you know that my cages before were the ff:

'74 1.3 mexico
'74 1.6 brenda
'74 2.0 cortina (tweaked to 2.4, twin side by jomag [rip])

Originally posted by spdfgtr
O/T gilbert

do you have an idea how much would a fully restored Kubelwegen convertible will fetch sa market natin?

back to topic..

ano yung service dati ng mga PLDT? volks engine din yun alam ko pero body custom made na dito.

Hec,

It depends on what model year Kubel you're talking about. If it's a legit 1940's ~ 1950's Kubel with all the bells and whistles and with all the "correct" parts in it, the price will be in the 7-figure range. If on the other hand you're refering to the VW "Thing" (Type-181), prices for clean restored units vary from 150~350k depending on the "completeness" and "correctness" of the restoration work. Keep in mind though that nearly 95% of the locals mistaken refer to the Thing as the Kubelwagen, so you might be surprised at what you end up looking at when you hear about a prospective project.

There's also the elusive and highly desireable VW Schwimmwagen, which are the amphibious bathtubs used by the German Army back in the "good ol' days".

P.S. The PLDT service vehicles were mostly Sakbayans but there were some "Things" and "Kombis" mixed in the fray.

Originally posted by Initial_Drift
Kubelwagen! Wow, I was thinking more along the lines of the Germany-sourced Sakbayan. Among the 3: Australian, Brazillian, and German, the latter had better specs (as expected) than the other 2. Too bad, VW-Germany stopped producing the Beetle earlier than the rest, forcing DMG-Pilipinas to source its components from Brazil.

Bro,

VWAG had factories all over the world besides the three that you mentioned. Australia and the Philippines only had assembly plants but had no real manufacturing facility back then.

When you say "spec", you really can't compared the VW's from one region to another as each area always had different requirements and optional parts & accessories as evidenced from the M-Code options listed in the various Workshop Manuals. I still have about a dozen original workshop manuals, parts fische, microfische, catalogs, brochures, and even original VW shop cabinets filled with old DMG sales invoices and warehouse indexes. It's fun reading through all the parts they had available back then.

Another bit of trivia: VW Brazil obtained all their dies and casting molds from the original VWAG Wolfsburg factory as early as the late 50's. This is also the reason why the first few Type-1 sedans (Beetle) that came out of the VW Brazil factories had really odd specs. If you ever come across a '62 Beetle with semaphores, a cloth sliding sunroof (ragtop) and an oval read window but with the post-'58 front windsheild and with overrider bars on the bumper.... please call me!

The last VW Beetle sedan left the Wolfsburg factory back in 1974 while the very last German VW Beetle Cabriolet left Karmann Karrosserie in Osnabrueck, Germany sometime in 1978~1979. I don't recall the exact dates now.

Originally posted by Initial_Drift
Actually, I think the Trakbayan had the VW Bettle engine fitted up front.
You're right! My boo-boo. Brain fart.


The main problem with the whole idea was that the VW Beetle engine was not built to haul heavy loads. It had a meager compression ratio of 7:1 and the gearing available at the time was just not low enough to help the measly torque output.
Ou contrare! FYI the VW aircooled flat-4 boxer engine had and still has one of the highest torque ratings of any engine given the same specs and dimensions. Even the early 1100cc engines used on the early Splits had more torque than any other "family car" at that time. The VW Sakbayan, along with the same generation Type-2's and other industrial vehicles were all equipped with reduction gearboxes on each rear wheel which allowed them to literally make molehills out out mountains. This is the first time I've heard anyone mention VW and low torque in the same breath. Ouch! I think you stepped on my toe. :D

I am not yet ready to do the resto that I plan to do at the moment. I was just asking around to have a better idea of what to do. Also, it's fun talking shop with fellow gearheads.
If you're interested I'd like to invite you to attend one of our local VW Club of the Philippines weekly meetings. We meet every Saturday night at KFC, E.Rodriguez Ave. near St.Lukes Hospital. There's usually a couple dozen VW's parked at the side with their friendly owners more than willing to share their love stories with their VW's. Who knows, you might find that project car you've been searching for through the folks you'll meet there. Whatever you do though, just keep this in mind....

"Once bitten by the Bug, there's no turning back!"

Ahhh...there's nothing like it...

http://www.volkswagen.co.jp/cars/new/newbeetlecabriolet/gallery/gallery/04.jpg

Originally posted by Hercules
Initial_Drift>>

FYI:

The Mitsu Cimmaron has a 1.6 Neptune engine

The Ford fiera uses a 1.3 OHV Kent engine

The VW-DMG came out with "Sakbayan"(carlike humvee) models too...

I'm sorry, did I say Saturn? My mistake...I meant Neptune (which was borrowed from the '76 Lancer). And it was a 1.4, not a 1.6 liter.

I loved that engine a lot. It idled so quietly and revved very smoothly and higher than most engines of its time. All as a result of an oversquare bore-to-stroke ratio. That engine got me interested in Mitsubishi engines like the 1.6 liter Saturn which powered the '76-onwards Galant. I also like the 80-86 Lancers (aka Box-Type) with their engine options namely GL=1.4 liter with a 4-speed manual, and the GSR = 1.6 SOHC with 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic.


...I love ford engines. I have the specs of the FORD engines at home. Did you know that my cages before were the ff:

'74 1.3 mexico
'74 1.6 brenda
'74 2.0 cortina (tweaked to 2.4, twin side by jomag [rip])

I myself am particularly fond of the 80-83 Cortina 2-dr Coupe 2.0 SOHC, Crossflow Head, 5-speed manual. Also the Ford Laser which I'm convinced has an almost perfect combination of gear ratios and engine torque curve. That car didnt seem to need to be shifted--it felt like you could start it in 3rd gear, and yet was capable of running a high enough top speed.

Originally posted by Hercules


I love ford engines. I have the specs of the FORD engines at home. Did you know that my cages before were the ff:

'74 1.3 mexico
'74 1.6 brenda
'74 2.0 cortina (tweaked to 2.4, twin side by jomag [rip])
(OT)

talaga herc?? my first car was a black 4door 71' cortina, 1.6L cam4, oversized pistons, port n polished, 4.1 crossworth headers with the exhaust system cut to the mid... kinda heavy, pero, can burn rubber up to the 3rd gear (love that car...ummm... memories hehehe).... we have a car club back then, it's called "COUNTERFEIT", and we used to hang out every saturday night sa greenhills/whiteplains.

Originally posted by GSChan
Ou contrare! FYI the VW aircooled flat-4 boxer engine had and still has one of the highest torque ratings of any engine given the same specs and dimensions. Even the early 1100cc engines used on the early Splits had more torque than any other "family car" at that time. The VW Sakbayan, along with the same generation Type-2's and other industrial vehicles were all equipped with reduction gearboxes on each rear wheel which allowed them to literally make molehills out out mountains. This is the first time I've heard anyone mention VW and low torque in the same breath. Ouch! I think you stepped on my toe. :D

I beg to differ. Perhaps the reason why you say the VW aircooled flat-4 had a high torque rating in its time is because the other cars had smaller, higher revving water-cooled designs. Back in the 70's, the Beetle had already met it's match in the newly introduced Honda Civic, with its ingenious CVCC (Controlled Vortex Combustion Chamber) or more appropriately, Stratified Charge engine. Back in the Motherland(Phils), the Civic was never introduced until the 90's but Datsun had a potent car in the "1500". Mitsubishi also fought back with it's Colt--a tiny car fitted with an optional 1500 or 1600 Saturn engine, and Toyota was content with their boulevard cruising Corollas and Coronas with 1.2 and 1.6 liter engines respectively.

The 1600 Beetle did have good low-end torque despite an oversquare design. But it was a bit dated compared to higher compression designs of the competition. Still, the inherent balance, simplicity, reliability, and overall ingenuity of the flat-4 design gives it its timelessness. You've got to give it credt for having been around the longest.

It was only in the late 70s and the early 80s that faster Beetles began to emerge, powered by improved, aftermarket-laden rebuilt engines. Twin carbs, dual intake ports, high energy ignition systems, and equal length, tuned tube exhausts, gave the car an agressive appearance and sporty performance.

However, these items would have been impractical on an economy people mover like the trakbayan. I'm not completely sure about this, but I think one of the major reasons for the decline of its popularity was the inavailability of a lower final driver ratio. This aggravated a then unknown weakness in the engine which was a weak stud bolt-to-crankcase attachment. Under heavy loads, the engine would have had revealed this fault early in its life, causing the operator a lot of headaches in having to re-tread and oversize the stud threads.

You said something about the Sakbayans having a reduction gear on each wheel? I'm probably misundersanding you because I find it hard to believe that the Sakbayan had such sophistication. But you seem to know alot about VDubs so I'll have to take your word for it. :)
[/B][/QUOTE]

I have to say something, years ago I had a 56 beetle with a 1200cc motor, it had 36 horsepower, it was all about torque, it didn't have enought horsepower to get out of its on way, they used the same motor in the vans little lower gearing though, I have owned lots of 1600cc aircooled volks, they only had 40 horsepower, again all about torque, you never stalled them and they could cruise at 65mph all day and the most comfortable seats going in them, I still have a 1972 Volks Westfailia, it has a 1900cc motor in it, lots of torque for the tallest hills, I will bet you could put a 2000cc honda motor in it and because of the lack of torque you would have a tough time starting off with it although once you were going it would be faster, incidently my westfailia is the same model I took to mexico with a 1600cc motor and we (my dog and I) cruised at 70 on the freeways, slowed for the hills though

Initial_Drift,

FYI: The 1600cc VW engines starting sometime in '71 all had the upper front #3 cylinder stud deep-studded to cure the problem you mentioned. Later AS-41 engine cases were also better as they had 2% more aluminum content as compared to the earlier AS-21 cases. This improved the reliability and strength of the engines as a whole. But admittedly the VW magnesium cases were never designed nor meant to be used for decades at a time. The aircooled boxer engine was already going on it's 3rd decade of production before any of the watercooled aluminum-blocked contemporaries started coming out in the market. I however still think that the VW engine is still one of the most reliable engines out there. It'll take you to and from the ends of the world and still keep on chugging. It may not be fast, but it sure is d@mn reliable. :crazy:

The 4-speed VW transmissions were always available in numerous gearing combinations. For the Type-2 vans and the commercial vehicles they were mostly fitted with 4.325:1 r&p gearing with the option of upping that to a 4.6 or a 5.2 depending on the application. Also not only were the Sakbayan and Type-2's fitted with reduction boxes at each rear wheel, but some of them even had a ZF limited slip differential available as an M-code option (M-23, IIRC). I have the literatures and several ZF LSD housings in my posession if you need further proof. This made them very good workhorses as they were able to pull heavy loads and climb the steepest grades even while being powered by relatively tiny engines. The early 1192cc engines fitted on the commercial trucks back in the late 50's and early 60's could out-pull and out carry conventional trucks with over twice the engine displacement.

Ford & Chevy...... Bring 'em on! :>

Originally posted by GSChan
Initial_Drift,

FYI: The 1600cc VW engines starting sometime in '71 all had the upper front #3 cylinder stud deep-studded to cure the problem you mentioned. Later AS-41 engine cases were also better as they had 2% more aluminum content as compared to the earlier AS-21 cases. This improved the reliability and strength of the engines as a whole. But admittedly the VW magnesium cases were never designed nor meant to be used for decades at a time.

I certainly didnt know that. I havent gotten around to asking that question before and I assumed that nothing was done to fix the said problem. Also, I've seen (and heard) later model Beetles showing signs of a backed up cylinder head, further reinforcing my false assumption. Thanks for the extensive info you gave.

By the way, you are right the cases are made of magnesium, so why did you say something about more aluminum content in the AS-41 case? Also, I was thinking, if the case had a problem holding the problematic stud in place, why couldnt they just use a counter-sunk hole and a nut inside the case to secure the stud?

By the way, are you familiar with the 1300s. I've asked about it in other forums but apparently the Phils. version is different from the European and American models. I remember vividly liking that particular Beetle a lot. It had the features of the 68 including the smooth engine cover, yet it looked better than the 68 because it had smaller windows, giving the car a sleeker look. I also noticed the 1300s had shallower creases on the hood.

There was also another 1300 version available in RP. It had the same front end as the 1300s but the rear end was different by reason of the large round tailights and the louvres of the 1600.
That car had a lower final drive ratio than the 68 because it could do a grade in 4th that the 68 1500 sedan had a hard time doing in 3rd. It also did away with the heat exchanger that the Germany-sourced '68 had standard.

This is really funny. I've been looking around for forums to discuss things about VW and it's only here that I finally get my answers. That's what I like about these forums.



The 4-speed VW transmissions were always available in numerous gearing combinations. For the Type-2 vans and the commercial vehicles they were mostly fitted with 4.325:1 r&p gearing with the option of upping that to a 4.6 or a 5.2 depending on the application. Also not only were the Sakbayan and Type-2's fitted with reduction boxes at each rear wheel, but some of them even had a ZF limited slip differential available as an M-code option (M-23, IIRC). I have the literatures and several ZF LSD housings in my posession if you need further proof. This made them very good workhorses as they were able to pull heavy loads and climb the steepest grades even while being powered by relatively tiny engines. The early 1192cc engines fitted on the commercial trucks back in the late 50's and early 60's could out-pull and out carry conventional trucks with over twice the engine displacement.

I cant believe I missed out on that info. Are you sure the LSD and the reduction gears on each wheel was available in RP? That certainly is the first time I've heard of a driveline with reduction gears on each of the driving wheels.

Nice picture, by the way. Is that the transaxle with the ZF LSD?

By the way, you are right the cases are made of magnesium, so why did you say something about more aluminum content in the AS-41 case? Also, I was thinking, if the case had a problem holding the problematic stud in place, why couldnt they just use a counter-sunk hole and a nut inside the case to secure the stud?
AS41 = 96% Magnesium, 4% Aluminum
AS21 = 98% Magnesium, 2% Aluminum

As for the counter-sunk hole, that's what the factory thought of doing first. But instead of putting in a nut on the inside of the block they just put in oversized "case saver" on all the stud holes and replaced all the 10mm studs with 8mm replacements. Only the upper front #3 stud (exhaust side) was deep-studded and the area in the bellhousing nearest this stud hole was also thickened up in the casting process to prevent further failures. It worked.

By the way, are you familiar with the 1300s. I've asked about it in other forums but apparently the Phils. version is different from the European and American models. I remember vividly liking that particular Beetle a lot. It had the features of the 68 including the smooth engine cover, yet it looked better than the 68 because it had smaller windows, giving the car a sleeker look. I also noticed the 1300s had shallower creases on the hood.[/qoute]
That's because the local (RP) market never received the U.S.-spec '68-up chassis for the standard (econo) models. While the U.S.-bound cars all got the then-new IRS rear suspension with disc brakes up front, the RP models were all still running around with swingaxle rear ends and drum brakes in front. Only special ordered (M-code optioned) Deluxe sedans were fitted with 4-lug disc brakes as well as getting the hi-comp 1500cc engines. These are what the locals refer to as the "1300-S" models. Only the 1302S ('71-'72) and 1303S ('73-up) Super Beetles got the IRS rear and the McPherson struts up front. It's also worth noting that the local market always had an econo model available in the form of a standard 1200cc Type-1. This was the bargain basement unit that was available up until the mid 70's. Ironically, it's these econo models which are highly sought after nowadays by collectors as they are the least likely to be abused by their owners are are much easier to restore as they had almost zero accessories and had less frills. (Less chrome, less upholstery, less carpetting, solid paint, no radio, etc...)

[quote]There was also another 1300 version available in RP. It had the same front end as the 1300s but the rear end was different by reason of the large round tailights and the louvres of the 1600.
That car had a lower final drive ratio than the 68 because it could do a grade in 4th that the 68 1500 sedan had a hard time doing in 3rd. It also did away with the heat exchanger that the Germany-sourced '68 had standard.
Those are the Brazilian Beetles which were released during the transition years between the mid to late 70's. The early Brazil Beetles used the body of pre-'66 cars so they all had the smaller windows and upright door vent window posts. The door mechanisms were also patterned after the early models with the door lock mechanisms being actuated by the handles. The later model Brazil Beetles eventually reverted to the 68-up body layout. What's strange however is that they were still using the 72-down rear fenders but fitted nasty looking taillight adaptors to house the 73-up elephant foot lenses. If you're familiar with what I'm talking about I'm sure you'd agree. I wonder what the VW marketing people were smoking back then to have come up with such a disgusting concept. Yuuuck!

This is really funny. I've been looking around for forums to discuss things about VW and it's only here that I finally get my answers. That's what I like about these forums.
Have you tried subscribing to the various VW mailing lists and newsgroups online? I've been on the VintagVW mailinglists since '95 and they're possibly the best bunch of people you'd ever come across online. Even better than MCP regulars (Ducking for cover!) :> =b I'm also currently working on the official website of the Volkswagen Club of the Philippines (VWCP) and should have the initial layout up and running sometime next week. There's going to be a forums section over there as well so you might want to check into that later on.

I cant believe I missed out on that info. Are you sure the LSD and the reduction gears on each wheel was available in RP? That certainly is the first time I've heard of a driveline with reduction gears on each of the driving wheels.
Sorry for the confusion. The reduction boxes were attached to each rear wheel. The boxes are attached to the ends of the spring plates where the axle shafts are connected to. The boxes hang vertically and through a series of gears actuate a lower stub shaft where the drum brake assembly is located and where the wheels are bolted onto. This layout made reduction box-equipped cars higher in the rear which resulted in better overall ground clearance. The ZF LSD units on the other hand were of course installed within the transaxle. It replaced the stock spider gear assembly with the ZF housing and lsd clutch stack.

Nice picture, by the way. Is that the transaxle with the ZF LSD? Yup. Both the ZF lsd and the close-ratio gear stack shown in the photo were previously used in a late 70's drag Bug and in a mid 80's drag Ghia. After being retired by the previous owner I was lucky enough to have gained posession of them and had plans on putting them in my daily driver. But as lucky would have it I was offered a silly amount of cash so I just had to give them up to the "lucky" guy. IIRC the lsd should now be living it's new life inside a Canadian street rod. :C

Originally posted by GSChan
Sorry for the confusion. The reduction boxes were attached to each rear wheel. The boxes are attached to the ends of the spring plates where the axle shafts are connected to. The boxes hang vertically and through a series of gears actuate a lower stub shaft where the drum brake assembly is located and where the wheels are bolted onto. This layout made reduction box-equipped cars higher in the rear which resulted in better overall ground clearance.

Oh, so that's what they used on the Manx! I never could figure out why the Manx had such ground clearance, even to the point that the car lifted its rear when accelerated! I bet the reduction gears were badly needed on the buggy to offset the leverage lost in the large diameter tires.

Yes, I am familiar with the Bazillian 1300 with the "elephant paw" tailights. It probably depends on how you were introduced to a design concept because I dont think they're as bad as you say it is. In fact, I like that car better than the proper (US and Euro-Market) 1302 and 1303 with the enlarged trunk space, rounded windshield, MacPherson Struts, dual jointed rear suspension. As a matter of fact, I think I'm not alone in thinking that, judging from the design that VW-Mexico decided to use on their Classic Beetle, a.k.a., Vochito. But I do believe the best looking classic beetle is the one you say that was based on the pre-68 car with the smaller windows. Was that car really officially called the 1300-S, or is that a misnomer (I try looking it up on the web and I get a different looking car) among people who dont know that much about the car? Since that car (1300-S) looks pretty much like the '68-'70 Beetle, would the body fit right on top of a '68 chassis?

Thanks for the wonderful info.

I intend to build my own Beetle someday and this time I intend to lose the bugs. I'll make sure I put a large capacity oil-cooler, a larger capacity and finned crankcase for extra engine cooling, a spin-on external oil filter (with flow-through plumbing), a re-inforced differential plate, on a rebuilt 1600 with a lowered final drive ratio twisting fatter tires.