I will leave this first post open. The pre-supposition remains that when one talks about forgiving and forgetting, there was injustice done in some way or form, be it deliberate or not. If deliberate, then that's when the real agony starts. Let the victims speak in this thread. The culprits, if they wish to. State facts and do not pinpoint actual names of persons, companies, etc. so as to avoid libel or slander cases. Just give situational and obviously co-incidental facts. We will then see if "Forgive and Forget" is plausible, doable, just, moral and ethical or maybe a perverse and systematic intellectual or spiritual camouflage for tolerating the inhumane and wanting to erase the memory of injustice (because they are also part of the injustice?), or due to utter lack of empathy and sympathy.

I just want to let the ball roll here. If "wackos" start infiltrating this serious thread, may I request the administration to delete the whole thread without prior notice to the thread starter. The purpose here is simply to have a clearer picture of what "justice", "honesty", "word of honor", "sense of fairness and humaneness", "dignity and nobility", "friendship", "doing a good thing for a good cause" are, and their opposites. Another purpose is to be able to better understand why victims talk and act and react and expect things which may be incomprehensible or unacceptable to individuals who are not victims, or may be both victims and culprits themselves, but choose to quickly get rid of the past - perhaps because the past is very uncomfortable, like a ghost haunting one day and night? This is a case-to-case basis. One may be a victim in a particular sense, the other in another sense.

Forgive and Forget: Why or why not? Religion may play a role here, but let this thread not be a religious discussion. The intention of the thread is not religious in nature. With or without gods or a god, with or without so-called divine providence or not, the fact remains that since time immemorial, there had been culprits and victims in the history of mankind. How do we deal with such a situation?

The next thread will be: ARE WE MORALLY-ETHICALLY ALLOWED TO REMAIN NEUTRAL IN CASES OF BLATANT INJUSTICE merely for the sake of "peace"? Or are there situations in life where one has no choice but to make a definite choice: FOR OR AGAINST? No middle thing; either left or right. No compromise; either stop or tolerate?

I am not sure this is a good idea but for those who don't know, here is a very brief story of what happened.

When Motorcycle Philippines started to get very big and the cost of hosting etc was getting more than I could afford to keep paying out of my pocket I started looking for sponsors. Some of them said it would be easier to get the cash from their regional offices if the site was Asia wide, not just the Philippines.

So I registered a new name. The .com version was taken but not in use. I tried contacting the owner but had no luck so I went ahead with the .net version. The .net domain name was set to redirect all traffic to Motorcycle Philippines so when everything was ready I could just change the name and Motorcycle Philippines could be redirected to the new site. I put the new name under the Motorcycle Philippines logo on the home page. The new site was registered with all major search engines and many smaller ones (I paid for at least 300 with a registrations service apart from many hours doing it myself)

I paid a sales manager of a company I worked for to spend weeks digging out the ad rates of similar size web sites (very difficult because this is often confidential info) and produce a rate sheet for potential advertisers. I set up the new site running in parallel with motorcycle Philippines and for a long time was struggling to maintain both while I prepared for the switch.

I spent hundreds of hours over about a year and quite a lot of money setting up agreements with people in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, New Zealand, Australia, etc. Each would supply and update content from their area.

Eventually I was almost ready to roll and was working out the final design concept when people from a computer site asked if they could do design work for me in return for advertising on Motorcycle Philippines. I was not very interested but eventually agreed. They then asked for the rate sheet so they could assess what they would do in return for ads.

Almost immediately after I gave them the rate sheet a new web site was launched by them. It had the same name as my Asia wide site and the entire concept of the site was almost identical to Motorcycle Philippines. (Check the Alexa wayback machine for copies of both sites at that time). The .com variation that I tried to get before had become available and that's what they used.

The Motorcycle Philippines forums were flooded with messages telling people to go to their new site and I received many complaints from members who were receiving emails and private messages from the new site trying to persuade them to move there.

Obviously it was pointless to launch my Asia wide site now there was another site with the same name. They also registered the domain motorcyclephilippines.net.

When I asked what the hell was going on they said they didn't know I was already using the name. They had not seen it under the logo on Motorcycle Philippines, (they were members who visited often and were looking at redesigning the site!) they said they checked with the Philippines SEC and it was not registered but they never did the obvious - a simple search on the Internet. These people promote themselves as professional web developers but were asking people to believe they did not know that the place to check if a web site name is in use is on the Internet! Web sites do not have to be registered companies and certainly do not have to be Philippine registered companies. Apart from all this, every registrar I use will immediately tell you which variations of a domain name (.com .net .org .tv .bus etc) are in use when you start the registration procedure.

They eventually admitted it was all their fault but said it was inconvenient to change so they would continue. From that point on they became head on competitors and I was forced to trash months of work and expense.

I believe I am the victim of a well planned scam. I have no problem forgiving those who regret what they have done and try to put it right but to forgive those who just laugh in your face and continue to do what they started only encourages them.

Point well taken Frank. But you also wrote "I paid a sales manager of a company I worked for to spend weeks digging out the ad rates of similar size web sites (very difficult because this is often confidential info) and produce a rate sheet for potential advertisers" I hope no one was aggrieved when you did this as it may also be considered as stealing. I am not being critical here but just observing that for us to be treated fairly, we have to make sure that we are doing the same :x

Good point, but I can assure you there was nothing illegal or underhanded done to get the information. It was mostly a case of spending time with each one of many web site companies and convincing them that the information would not be used to compete with them. At that time and for about another two years we were no competition at all. Even now we are only competition because we are bigger than most of them but our sponsors are generally very different so the effect on them is virtually zero.

The history of MCA is simple. 2 friends got together one night, Inaki Araneta and Inaki Matute and thought of a way to see how they can effectively market mielinc (a website co) locally.

Inaki Matute said we advertise to all the local sites or we just build a couple of sites and demo the technical capabilities.

Inaki Araneta said -"ok lets study both and see how much each one would cost and we will proceed which of the 2 would be cost effective."

So Inaki Matute did just that and got the rate sheets of almost every local site available. Then after some quick artithmethic it was more cost effective to build and host demo sites than it is to advertise in existing websites.

Inaki Matute gave me a call and he wanted me to provide content for the demo site which was all about motorcycles. I suggested we do something a bit different and if mielinc was going to build one - lets build it for real and make it really work.

Frank from what I understand you didnt agree on an ex-deal with us. But that does not really matter now, I guess.

I chose the name not for anything Frank but its just a name i could think off at that time. I didnt bother to check - what for and who cares, if it was available then i could use it. I didnt know you had the .net and even if i did know you had the .net so what.

I was an avid follower of www.motorcycle.com and I added asia its that simple, I was dreaming that someday I could run a site just like theirs. Easier said than done, that I know now, especially if you have a regular job to attend to.

Inaki Araneta and Matute put me in charge to put in the content for mca. And thats how we got started.

About the sending PM's to members and all that propaganda - I dont know how accurately you think the plot was or how you make it sound, but I personally invited people to visit the site, I would go out on rides and ask bikers to log on to our site. "I went to door to door" so to speak, I did PM a few friends in MCP and told them about our site as well. Those I PM'ed numbered less than 4 Frank and it went something like this.

"Hey dude - lets meet up, I and a couple of friends are building a new mcsite - wanna invite you to be one of the mods"

And yes Inaki Matute would sneak in some post in your forums to promote the site. Thats true I but really didnt think of it as such a big deal - cause we figure you'd delete it straight out. Naughty us. :S

But just to set the record straight Frank - before we came out with the site I emailed you and said I was planning out things to make our sites help each other. But you refused any help from me, because you said it would benefit me more than it would you. Since you had a big following already - it'd be riding on your success. Fine then, if thats how you think of it then so be it.

After we launched you accused us of being liars, cheats and crooks? Dang dude that was a heavy pill to swallow and to think I really had so much respect for you and for what you have done here.

Then accusations were hurled here and there, there were lots of bitter exchanges between you and us. To the point that you even insulted my entire family with some of the things you said about the fund raising event for my nephew.

Anyway. I dont see the whole point of our conflict. You accuse us of being cheats and liars and crooks and make money from our members - wait is this a bad thing. I pay subscription to be on motorycle.com should I lodge a complaint?

Oh yeah we are unprofesional and I forget - you have to help me out here Frank.

So we cant stand each others gutts - you dont like us period. But really I dont see how you can openly brand us as cheats and liars and crooks...and oh yeah lowlifes as well. Its freedom of speech I guess - but really Frank, is this your basis of branding us as cheats, liars and crooks.

I have appealed to all MCA members to just be more positive, I mean whats the point in all these? Lets just do what we like to do in a positive manner and let things be. I dont see how we could "out do" you Frank - you have the majority on your side right.

Anyway - good luck to you and i wish you the best.

The Motorcycle Philippines forums were flooded with messages telling people to go to their new site and I received many complaints from members who were receiving emails and private messages from the new site trying to persuade them to move there.
I would be guilty in inviting some other people to visit the site... but that was when MCA was new. It's always exciting to see something new coming up just as it is when a new mall is opened up in your neighborhood. I just had to share it with some friends. In doing so, I don't find any wrong in it. It's a free world. It would be wrong though if one would say "Hey MCP is crap! Come over to MCA!". I'm not in any way related to the site owners so there isn't any personal gain on my side. I just wanted to share the good news.

It's also a free world if anybody wants to put up his own motorcycle forums just as the mca guys and the , and the cebusybermoto.com guys did. They checked if mca.com was available and then bought it. Simple asthat. So I was just wondering, where does "stealing" come in? And, why would you call us guys who frequent mca as "people who see nothing wrong in helping those who lie cheat and steal from their friends". As I mentioned, we are entitled to our own opinions and me & the rest of the guys don't see any "stealing" or "scam" involved.

I was also wondering, if you were working on asia-wide stuff for your site, why didn't you buy the domain name first and foremost before working on it? did you own the domain name first?

I don't see much point in discussing this if we are just going to twist things around (like they always do). I never said they copied the domain name. I said they copied the site name and the entire concept of Motorcycle Philippines. You really must be a complete idiot if you think any sucessful site will help you to compete with them. Of course I refused you offers to swap banners etc just the same as any bigger site you compete with would do.

Migs, What you say below is entirely different from what you and your friends said before. You need to get your story straight. At least you now admit that your attitude was "so what who cares" which is NOT what was said before but is what I have said your attitude is all along.

Starting a motorcycle site to promote a web site company does not make any sense to me especially as I doubt if most people even know from your site that the web site company even exists. But then much of what you say doesn't make much sense to me. If it is a site to promote a web site company how come it is about motorcycles:nuts: Also you and your friends have publically said things that would make any potential customers seriously doubt your professionalism. Would you build a site for a customer using a name and concept that is already in use and say so what?

And no I will NOT fall for your childish trick and visit your site or the others to spread the argument. Like I said before, if the majority think I am wrong I will simply close the site, repay the sponsors and then everyone can just use the site of the "web site company". I am just working long hours 7 days a week for no pay so its fine by me if that is what people prefer. Lets find out if the users really want a site with ethics or a site who thinks "So what, who cares"

Below is my answer on the other thread that should no longer be used for this discussion.

I didn't lose the .net domain name. They registered the .com version, copied the site name and then copied the concept of Motorcycle Philippines. There are dozens of domain name variations such as com, net, org, tv, bus, etc plus all the country specific versions like PH, HK, etc. It dosn't make sense to buy them all and they introduce new ones every few months. Most people assume the site is .com so that is of course the preferred version.

In terms of the name, I am referring to the name of the site not the domain name. The site name is identical to my site. I tried to get the .com domain name but it was taken, was not being used and I could not contact the existing owner so I had to go with .net and wait for .com to expire. Unfortunately when .com did expire it was grabbed by you know who to set up their site of exactly the same name with the same concept.

This is very rare on the internet. Usually when someone has one version of a domain name in use nobody would be so unethical as to register a variation and copy the site name and concept of the first user. It would make small sites completely impractical if this happened often because only the big rich sites could afford to buy all the domain names or take legal action against crooks.

Migs,
Please try to use your brain. Does Asia wide content make sense on a site named Motorcycle Philippines while a competitor uses the more logical name they copied from me? Does continuing with an Asia wide site make any sense when there is a competitor using an identical name? Of course you would get a lot of traffic from people going to the wrong site assuming .com to be correct so it would be great for you to grab even more undeserved traffic.

It took me about 2 - 3 years to build Motorcycle Philippines as it evolved according to its members needs. I mean clone in the sense that your original site had almost the same layout, the same sections, the same concept, etc, etc as Motorcycle Philippines and was very obviously intended to be a copy with just a different graphic design. There are thousands of motorcycle sites but have you ever seen any other site anywhere in the world with the same concept as Motorcycle Philippines. Until you came along and made your copy it was the only site covering all aspects of motorcycling for a country or continent.

Whitebear,
They registered motorcyclephilippines.net and offered to swap it for mca net completely ignoring the hundreds of thousands of pesos and months of work I spent on the site that goes with the name. I refused and made the same offer in return that I would be happy to register the .org .tv .bus or any of the other dozens of options and swap for their mca com domain. Of course they refused.

Actually I believe it was done as a threat but when other people saw it that way they said OK they will just point it to Motorcyclephilippines.com. Keep in mind that it takes about 2 minutes to change a redirect. It is worthless to me and can be changed to redirect to their own site anytime if traffic ever goes to it.

This is similar to the Byk101.com problem. They registered the name for Byk101 but not in the name of anyone at Byk101. When Byk101 refused to work with them any longer they promised to transfer ownership of the domain name. For many months all traffic going to Byk101.com was redirected from byk101.com to their own site. After months of repeated requests and attempts to get them to approve the transfer they convinced Byk101 that it was transferred but in fact they simply set up a redirect which can be switched back to their own site anytime in a couple of minutes. If you check the whois you will see that byk101.com is still in their name.

I don't see much point in discussing this if we are just going to twist things around (like they always do). I never said they copied the domain name. I said they copied the site name and the entire concept of Motorcycle Philippines.

Migs, What you say below is entirely different from what you and your friends said before. You need to get your story straight. At least you now admit that your attitude was "so what who cares" which is NOT what was said before but is what I have said your attitude is all along.

And no I will NOT fall for your childish trick and visit your site or the others to spread the argument.

Below is my answer on the other thread that should no longer be used for this discussion.

I didn't lose the .net domain name. They registered the .com version, copied the site name and then copied the concept of Motorcycle Philippines. There are dozens of domain name variations such as com, net, org, tv, bus, etc plus all the country specific versions like PH, HK, etc. It dosn't make sense to buy them all and they introduce new ones every few months. Most people assume the site is .com so that is of course the preferred version.

In terms of the name, I am referring to the name of the site not the domain name. The site name is identical to my site. I tried to get the .com domain name but it was taken, was not being used and I could not contact the existing owner so I had to go with .net and wait for .com to expire. Unfortunately when .com did expire it was grabbed by you know who to set up their site of exactly the same name with the same concept.

This is very rare on the internet. Usually when someone has one version of a domain name in use nobody would be so unethical as to register a variation and copy the site name and concept of the first user. It would make small sites completely impractical if this happened often because only the big rich sites could afford to buy all the domain names or take legal action against crooks.

Migs,
Please try to use your brain. Does Asia wide content make sense on a site named Motorcycle Philippines while a competitor uses the more logical name they copied from me? Does continuing with an Asia wide site make any sense when there is a competitor using an identical name? Of course you would get a lot of traffic from people going to the wrong site assuming .com to be correct so it would be great for you to grab even more undeserved traffic.

It took me about 2 - 3 years to build Motorcycle Philippines as it evolved according to its members needs. I mean clone in the sense that your original site had almost the same layout, the same sections, the same concept, etc, etc as Motorcycle Philippines and was very obviously intended to be a copy with just a different graphic design. There are thousands of motorcycle sites but have you ever seen any other site anywhere in the world with the same concept as Motorcycle Philippines. Until you came along and made your copy it was the only site covering all aspects of motorcycling for a country or continent.

Whitebear,
They registered motorcyclephilippines.net and offered to swap it for mca net completely ignoring the hundreds of thousands of pesos and months of work I spent on the site that goes with the name. I refused and made the same offer in return that I would be happy to register the .org .tv .bus or any of the other dozens of options and swap for their mca com domain. Of course they refused.

Actually I believe it was done as a threat but when other people saw it that way they said OK they will just point it to Motorcyclephilippines.com. Keep in mind that it takes about 2 minutes to change a redirect. It is worthless to me and can be changed to redirect to their own site anytime if traffic ever goes to it.

This is similar to the Byk101.com problem. They registered the name for Byk101 but not in the name of anyone at Byk101. When Byk101 refused to work with them any longer they promised to transfer ownership of the domain name. For many months all traffic going to Byk101.com was redirected from byk101.com to their own site. After months of repeated requests and attempts to get them to approve the transfer they convinced Byk101 that it was transferred but in fact they simply set up a redirect which can be switched back to their own site anytime in a couple of minutes. If you check the whois you will see that byk101.com is still in their name.

no trick or twists Frank.

to get you there? - am just informing the thread starter that i'm posting it in the other forums - try cebucybermoto on Jan their offline now for maintenance, how about - its not invitation Frank.

As far as I'm concerned thats how it really all started - and I'm pretty consistent from even before. The 2 Inakis would know more about prior to the start of the site - but the truth of the matter is that I described what the site would be:

as reference we wanted to have MCN (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page=motorcyclenews.home) as reference.

your site is philippines - i used asia - i didnt know you wanted to use asia too..geez Frank you even told me personally that you wouldnt want to do asia content - or i misunderstood you that night in starbucks (maybe so).

Frank you aint the only motorycle website. Not once did I use your site as reference. The Forum Titles were also named differently - but how can you avoid not talking about the same things - its a bike site for Pete's sake (not reffering to mr mcullagh) heheheh sorry pete.

Anyway vbulletin is the choice for forums - you have to agree it is the best forum software available in the market.

You have done good for your site see that what competetion does eh. makes you do better.

Anyway as for all the other issues - i'd like to stop the bickering - as one of the founders of the "other" site - i just want my point to be heard- invictus gave the opportunity.

I tried sending peace offerings in the past Frank but you wont have it. You still think that its a ploy for us to get more members - really thats not our objective here. If you were less insulting maybe I would just play the game without a word from me Frank - but you get personal and you ruin names because of your influence its quite disheartining - you actually get people to believe that we reall are crooks. Now thats bad from where I come from, specially if nots substantiated with facts. I never said you were a bad man Frank - I just criticized the way you are dealing with the whole situation between our sites.

Yes it would nice to be one big happy family! Just us all bikers - you accuse us of stealing -- why Frank? Because we didn't know you spent months of hardwork and 300K on asian content.

bet you of motorsiklo came out first it would have been the same story with you Frank.

just for thsoie taht are just new in MCP - this site didnt look like this before - thers been a lot changes even the thread topics changed a lot since the first time....so to compare now is not going to be a fair judgement to say that we copied this site. now there are more similarities - but there more info and features in MCP than our site.

And that whats nice about this site - a lot of info always updated on the biking community in the Philippines.

--- i almost forgot - how does having a motorycle site promote a web company.....it shows we can build a site with some nice graphics and features.

check out some of the sites we built since we used the bike site us demo platform:

http://www.diavox.com/
http://www.lbcexpress.com/
http://www.c-magazine.com/

hopefulyy we can get more accounts - other accounts are software development - very tidous work for our technical crew --- but they still find time to relax and work on mca.

i go to mca and use it as a means to get out of the routines of my main work. yeah you can say its a hobby for us now but we try to make sure our hobby would support itself - we are just being practical.

so whats the crime in that?

i have to admit we are short in manpower to continue updating mca but we are working on it and maybe we can work it out that we dont duplicate contents with your site Frank. (thats another peace offering)

there is still a chance to compete without the use of bad words or personalan so to speak.

.

With the risk of sounding or for you guys to percieve this as BS...but I say truthfully.

Personally I'm ready to forget the past - and forgive (if forgiveness is asked) to me its just for Frank to say sorry for what he said about the fund raising "trackday for cause" for my nephew which he labelled as a "scam" that was so below the belt. And to stop calling me, inaki araneta, inaki matute - crooks. Clearly we didnt steal anything from anyone.

As for me I will ask forgiveness to all that were offended by my posts in the past and I ask James Mirasol to forgive me as I was too emotional about the whole thing. Long discussion - but i think i said i was sorry before but i let me just reiterate it. We never had a good talk since then so I guess I offended him and the others as well, tiempo - i got involved in th eother site shortly after that exchange.

If there is anything else that I did to offend anyone in this site - you may post here - or PM. Any which way - i'm all open to one real big community of bikers held together by the same interests and not by websites.

I do this to maintain peace between members who are all bikers - because we are bikers we dont want to be choosing sides of which site to go to - ther shouldn't be any rift between oursleves - we share one passion, one onterest - and thats our beloved 2 wheel machine. That's all.

Happy New Year to you all!

Forgive and Forget: Why or why not?

My 2 cents.

Forgive, yes. Forget, no.

Forgive to stop the cycle, to stop evil from continuing its work. Take for example Israel and Palestine. IMO, violence continues because both parties will not forgive. Why? In my simple mind because too much blood has been spilled, too many homes have been broken, too many lives have been destroyed. And what will stop them from forgiving each other? Again, in my simple mind, without direct and sincere talk there will be no forgiveness. Without people sitting down and threshing out the issues they have in hand, there will be no forgiveness, no settlement, no reconciliation. Nothing and so enmity, animosity, bitterness, hurts, pains, destruction will continue. Both parties will continue to suffer whether they like it or not.

And of course, forgiveness is given by the person who was offended, owed, hurt, lost due to the other person(s)'s actions - deliberate or not. Ironically, forgiveness is sweetest and life changing to the person giving it when he/she has been hurt so deeply and gave out and lost so much. It releases that person from so much burden within him/her and from the cycle of evil, which unforgiveness feeds.

IMHO, absolute forgiveness has no conditions attached to it. The giver does not need to ask the receiver to ask for it. Forgiveness is given, more like a gift. It should not be used like in a barter, a trade. It is for the offender to accept it, whether he/she likes it or not.

Forget, we shouldn't. No, because we are not like God, who is omniscient and omnipotent. We can't see very clearly what's in the heart of anyone. We are too fragile, too sensitive, works too hard, suffers so much. We have only one life with a very short time span. We've got too much to lose. We are not built like robots which can endure, be repaired, replaced or upgraded. We cannot repeatedly fall, be crushed, broken, robbed, raped. We are taught to learn from our mistake. To forget, therefore, is unwise, stupid, is to be a fool.

Uhmm... that's why I always carry my PDA :O

And before I forget... what an excellent way to start the new year. Maybe we can start forgiving people whom we've forgotten to forgive this year.

I've got a list of those people... where did I place that darn list... ah... well... ooh yeah... it's in my... PDA. I've got a PDA? :R

Insulted their show? I dont think so. When they find time to give me some content we can make their site informative. Meanwhile I can't work with nothing. I was told you offered to build and maintain a site in exchange for the promotion on the show but decided it was "cheaper" to put some stuff on your site and redirect the traffic there. I don't know or care what your agreement was with them. They said they could no longer meet your demands and asked me to do the site and I said yes.

As always so much of what what you say is either not true or twisted around. Just like the old argument of trying to pretend I am accusing you because you use the same forums software. I think most people here are inteligent enough to know that is never what I said or intended.

If you check the other threads on this site and on your own you will see that many things you and your partners said before are very different to what you say now. Don't bother pretending that your site was never a very close copy of Motorcycle Philippines. Many people know the truth and it is recorded on Alexa.

I am not interested in continuing an argument with someone who is either too stupid or to unethical to discuss it honestly.

Any more sites you would like to advertise while you are at it? You have built three whole sites - Wow! I saw one of them and it looks just like yours.

I get asked to do about three sites every month but don't have the time.

I am a bit curious about you saying you are trying to be like a news site when you have such a tiny amount of news. Don't bother to answer that. I am not interested.

Of course you are ready to forget the past. You are not the victim.


Well it looks like I will be getting a well earned rest soon.

you know what Frank its cool. Obvioulsy this is going nowhere and it sounds like i am always twisting things around as you say it is.

Very well then.........be that way.

My 2 cents.

Forgive, yes. Forget, no.


point taken blitz...as God forgives we should, I asked forgiveness and didnt expect anything for that.

My name has been slandered and called a cheat and a liar, by Frank who believes I have done him wrong. I will not insult the guy publicly as he often does to me - I still have the patience to discuss this without throwing insults to the man. To forgive I honestly will - now even even if he does not ask forgiveness.

To forget - yes I agree with you...but we try to be more positive about things, as we should learn from the past.

God forgives when you regret what you did and do your best to put it right. Not when you say "So what, who cares"

like you Frank "so what who cares" if you call me a "crook" right Frank!

I just call it like I see it and only after I assess all the evidence.

WOW! Talk about bull.

Okay, why did I decide to read this thread?

Okay let’s see how long frank will keep this post? Will he delete it our keep it?

Okay let’s start with the domain name part. We purchased the domain name again for the million time without knowing you had a similar one nor did we snatch, steal, take whatever you want to call it from you. No plot at anytime was to do any of that! In two words frank dream on! You think this whole thing is about you? Who the hell are you to me? Or to my company! I don't know you, I don't care who you are. You've never met me nor have I met you. Why would I care!

Okay you say it has nothing to do with the domain name, so what's the argument? The name motorcycle asia? Well again it's registered to my company. I own the name. Just like Nissan owns the name! I have the papers and it's a LEGAL entity. So that's mine. Hell the domain name is mine too. Both mine. LEGALLY! it's mine. where is the problem?

I copied your concept! Why on earth would I do that? Your concept sucks! Before we came around you had such a ty website. Ugly, content was good. That's about it! Forum was messy! We did a better job in less than 3 months then you did in what 5 years? Give me a break. Now I come to see what's happening in the forums and it looks like our site now. Even the blue is starting to match ours.

You think we only have 3 accounts? Are you nuts! I operate a real company with real clients! Here are just some of the others we have done. ALL LBC websites except lbcusa which will soon be developed by us. US account's like www.pandaamerica.com Other websites like rats4x4.com even your new friend bike101, and by the way your still using the logo we developed, copy cat. How on earth can you even compare byk101 with the old site that we developed? Hell almost all the graphics in the TV show are still the ones we developed.

Frank I never once thought you where competition! I never once stole anything from you at anytime! The only person who has ever called me a cheater a liar stealer or anything, IS ONLY YOU! You are starting to get under my skin! You want competition!?! I'll give you competition!

Oh one more thing, you think we took decades like you to develop our site! It started end of dec and forums where ready by end of jan. We had motorcyc le asia ready by feb and launched by March 1. We are just good in what we do. Believe it!

As for the our community, everyone can choose to stay here or mca or both. It’s your free will. Oh and frank for your million’s you so called gave to the Filipino people. What pills are you taking!?! Stop blaming us Filipinos for your problems. If you don’t like us then GTFO of our country. Or frank maybe you want to work for me, that way you get paid for you troubles.

blah! blah! blah! :angry:

I love this type of talk so much! It gets me so hyper I feel like dancing. The argument going on between everyone puts a smile on my face like no other topics do. Everyone reading this must love it. :)

Araneta, this was especially hilarious -"frank maybe you want to work for me, that way you get paid for you troubles.". I read that 5 minutes ago and I'm still smiling!

From the guys of MCA... stop showing off about the number of sites, databases and software we've designed and developed. It's unethical to give people an idea of how much we made in our first fiscal year. It isn't fair no matter what! Let our internal secrets remain that way.

On another note: Frank will never change his mind about the way he feels about us. No matter how many arguments are brought up and how its debated on! Old dog's can't learn new tricks.

I used to be polite when conveying messages to him but he always fires back with haste so I've resigned to just typing out what I think without filtering anything in my brain. Ain't that right Frankyboy?

Here, I have a small proposal for you that you might actually like:

Since you've accused us of copying everything you've done in the last five years, why don't we just copy your site to the tee? We'll get Photopost Classifieds, Photopost Gallery, use your stories and put up free advertising for as many companies as we want to promote. I mean its obvious that majority of your hits are from those elements.

This works out perfectly for you! That way, when you tell all the people in the world that we copied your site, we can answer YES we did!

Araneta - Give me the go-ahead! I still have the Amexco Corporate Credit Card. Let's just buy all the software and have it up and running by February. If the office is too busy to work on it, let's just sub-contract a small team of 5 for 2 months to get it up and running.

Let's just copy everything!

I'm doing this for you Frank... I hate it that everyone in the motorcycling community calls you a liar when you say that we copied you. So, what we're going to do, is copy you entirely! That way, you can't be called a liar anymore.

Hold on, plagerism is illegal. We'll put up our own content and changed a few things here and there but we'll provide every little bit of information that you have as well.

The internet is free and so is the information on it.

Let me know what you think. I'm willing to take any advice from an older, wiser, smarter, foreigner who clearly knows much more about business and ethics than a measely self-employed, independently wealthy individual as myself!

Common sucker! Hit me with whatever you've got!

:nuts: can't handle this :vomit:

leave us alone you f@#%i (f@#%i) id#@*ts (id#@*ts) !!!

I apologize! Did I hurt your feelings. Where can I send you flowers? :)

toolbox bumalik ka na lang sa losing site mo ginugulo mo lang kami dito wala kasing nangyayari sa inyo.

layas!!!

kawawa naman kayo :M

yo! toolbox,,why dont you pick someone your on age:> :> :g :i

And so the greatest bullsh1tters I have ever known have spoken :O

Honestly I am just bored with all this ridiculous talking around in circles crap.

Here endeth the thread :D