Frank, I don't know if you're a knight or not. But they still practice the knighting ritual in Britain up to this day. You should know better since you are a Briton.

Whether you've been knighted or no, I still consider you a knight in all respect.

There are a lot of British celebrities and professors being knighted, after which they will be addressed as "Sirs". Do you know how the ritual works? Are they invited to the palace and things like that?

Since I personally consider you a knight myself, I will address you as Sir Frank Woolf. :)

:O To be knighted you have to do something VERY big for the country. Then if you are lucky your work may be recognized and you will be invited by the Queen to the Palace where the ceremony takes place. Knights are addressed by Sir followed by their first name only. People who don't know the Philippine culture might think there are lots of knights here. Everyone is addressed like a knight. :O

People who don't know the Philippine culture might think there are lots of knights here. Everyone is addressed like a knight. :O

Unfortunately for most Filipinos, we have this huge issue with pecking orders.

It's very rare to find places of work here where you can call your boss by his/her first name. In some offices, it's inappropriate to address other workers who have been working for a longer time than you other than Ate/Kuya or Sir/Ma'am.

I know it shocks a lot of my older relatives when I address other family members by their first name when talking about them, and dropping the important tito or tita.

When you have friends older than you, you are expected to call them tito/tita too.

Most Pinoys believe that you must show deference to them by address them appropriately (ma'am, sir, tito, tita, kuya, ate, etc.) as expected due to their position in the sociological structure.

The subject of Philippine kinship and structure is a very interesting topic. ;-)

When I moved here with my int'l company to assimilate a local company I had a hell of a lot of firing to do of people who thought the higher up the company ladder they got the less work they had to do. They had their staff running personal errands, washing their cars, using company resources for personal ends. They came in and out of the office when they felt like it. They played politics to stop deserving people get better jobs and contributed almost nothing of value to the business. Yet they demanded all and sundry kow-tow to them. Well, they soon found themselves looking for their next career move.......

In the end I formed the opinion that the bigger the guy's desk, the larger the carved wooden plaque with his name on it, and the more CD's and golf trophies on the shelf behind him, the more useless he tended to be!

:O

When I first got involved with Filipinos about 15 years ago in Hong Kong I kept telling them my name is Frank, not Sir. When I married a Filipina all her friends called me Sir and I kept repeating, my name is Frank, not Sir.

But after a while I started to understand the culture and realized I was just making them feel uncomfortable so I stopped saying it.

After I got close to my wife's family and especially now that I have two Filipino children at home I came to realize that it really is very a good tradition, especially for children growing up.

I think the respect for age (I am biased :D) and position is very valuable but at the same time it is large part of the cause of the problems in the Philippines because people respect those in high posititions even when they should be treated with contempt because the are corrupt and deserve no respect at all.

If only there could be a balance. Retain the traditional respect for age and position but never give it to those who prove they deserve only contempt. Giving respect to corrupt people is exactly what they rely on. If you take it away, you take away most of their power and influence.

:O To be knighted you have to do something VERY big for the country.

.....er, Cliff Richard? VERY big? Oh, I know. He lets Tony Blair use his Barbados house for free holidays......
:O :O :O :O :O :O :O

:O you are probably right but when you consider that taxes in the UK can go as high as 99% and people like Cliff Richards are paying taxes on millions of pounds every year for many years then you begin to see what I mean. He was also a tourist attraction and set a good example to kids.

Many people that get as rich and famous as Cliff Richards move from the UK to the US where the taxes are lower so just staying in the UK and paying the ridiculous taxes is doing something pretty big for the country.

Yep .... so if I knew this GUY or GAL is older than me, I susually call him or her Sir or Ma'am repectively. ;)

If I don't know whether he/she is older than me, I still call him/her Sir or Ma'am making sure I still show respect to him or her. ;) If the he/she is younger than me, I still call him/her Sir or Ma'am. :)

I rarely call anyone Sir or the like. Even here in the forums I'm sure many of you know that I address Frank as Frank, and everyone else as their respective names. Even at home I address family members with their respective names or nicknames. Recently I've started to address Frank as Sir Frank only for kicks. ;)

I used to work at a company where I didn't call my boss as "boss" or "sir". I simply addressed him as his real name. He didn't like me and ended up sacking me.

For me you cannot call someone "sir" unless he is really really a very important person. I mean the Filipino culture is very good, but sometimes it gets too stupid and weird for the foreigners to behold!!

Sometimes I see customer buying things from a store and addressing the shop owner as Sir. And I was like "What the f_ck are you calling this guy Sir for?". Isn't it supposed to be the other way around since you are the one paying him money?? Will his business survive without you customers supporting his products? Then why the hell are you calling him Sir? You customers are the true bosses, and not the shop owner!!

Sometimes they are so polite that it makes them look really stupid. They would call anyone Sir, which is plain wrong. Some people are not supposed to be addressed as Sirs. Only a very few deserving ones does.

Filipino culture is very warm and good. But Filipino politics is like cancer. You get all sorts of unproductive office politics when you work in a Filipino firm. You get all sorts of bad politics everywhere you go to here. Even the government is destroying it's own self with corruption!

And in the subject of taxes it's fair enough to say that living in one's own home ground is a form of nationalism. There are many world class celebrities and athletes living elsewhere just to escape home taxes. I think that these people would even betray their own countries if offered enough money! It's very hard to find someone truly nationalistic thesedays.

:
Many people that get as rich and famous as Cliff Richards move from the UK to the US where the taxes are lower so just staying in the UK and paying the ridiculous taxes is doing something pretty big for the country.


:O So it proves you can in effect just buy a knighthood! Or, you can be a thicko like "Sir" Mark Thatcher (who simply inherited the title from his father) or a jailed discredited crook like "Lord" (for Chrissake) Jeffrey Archer......I am anything but left wing but I have to agree there is too much patronage and crony-ism behind these awards to give the system any credibility. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown between them will run Britain into the ground if someone doesn't stop them but I bet they'll be sporting a "Lord" each in a decade or so. Bah! Humbug!

..now I'm to going to change the oil on my bike and do something useful... :O

:O sounds like you know a lot more about it than I do :O
I have never had the slightest interest in politics and my Filipina wife knows more about British royalty than I do :nuts:

..now I'm to going to change the oil on my bike and do something useful... :O

I'll grant you knighthood for changing the oil on your bike! Bow down, I'll draw the sword and place it over your head! :D

Actually it's from the right shoulder to the left.

.........Sometimes I see customer buying things from a store and addressing the shop owner as Sir. And I was like "What the f_ck are you calling this guy Sir for?". Isn't it supposed to be the other way around since you are the one paying him money?? Will his business survive without you customers supporting his products? Then why the hell are you calling him Sir? You customers are the true bosses, and not the shop owner!!..........

At my shop I call every possible client Sir/Ma'am ..... in retaurants .... I get the habit of calling every staff Sir/Ma'am (waitress,waiter, janitor) ..... dunno ....... but I liked the feeling ..... feels so good showing/expressing I am not higher than them or they're lower than me .... level. ;)

One time there's this Janitor from a hospital who lectured me ... "wag nga sir ang tawag mo sa akin, at kinikilabutan ako, manong nalang (smiling)" :D (don't call me sir, it makes me uncomfortable, better yet Manong:D) .... I agreed. :D

Yeah I dislike poeple addressing me as someone higher.

I'll grant you knighthood for changing the oil on your bike! Bow down, I'll draw the sword and place it over your head! :D

No, Her Majesty places the sword first on the left shoulder, then on the right, before announcing "arise, Sir Whatya-may-call-it".

It's a load of antiquated nonsense but I suppose it's comforting to be able to trace one's country and its customs back hundreds of years and recall the last time England was invaded was 1066. My favourite is how King Henry VIII burnt all the Catholic monasteries and sacked all the abbeys because the Pope wouldn't give him a divorce, and thence the Reformation and of course the birth of the Protestant Church. They didn't mess around in those days, they got the job done ....

:O :O :O

Since 1066?? Woah!!! I guess your government has been producing an ultra far-right breed of politicians since! You gotta love the conservatives!! Go right-wingers!!!

:)

Yeah I dislike poeple addressing me as someone higher.
Its not really addressing you as "HIGHER" but a gesture of repect. ;)

Its not really addressing you as "HIGHER" but a gesture of repect. ;)

A gesture of respect would be addressing someone as "Mr" and not as "Sir".

Calling someone Mr followed by his name is polite enough. But calling someone Sir is a completely different thing.

For example: Hello, good to see you Mr. Wolver888!

Another gesture of respect is to call someone "Pare" or "Bro". It shows your politeness without making yourself look dumb with all the "Sir" calling.

Hmmmm ...... at my shop where different people comes in and you don't know his/her name, how do you address Mr ..... errrrr?

I don't think this is appropriate ..... "Good morning mister/miss, anything I can do for you?"

Or this sounds better "Good morning sir/ma'am, anything i can do for you?"

Specially when its a lady where you don't know if its Mrs or Ms. ;)

Of course in differnet countries, the usual way is when they enter an extablishment, they start to introduce themselves (good morning, i am Mr/Ms/Mrs LIKE THIS and I would like to blah blah blah) which is mostly different here, they enter and start asking questions (do you have blah blah blah) and seldom introduce who they are later on. ;)

I encounter foreigners at my shop and they indeed introduce who they are and then inquire what they need. That's the time I address them as Mr, Ms or Mrs. ;) But not all foreigner do that ... some are arrogant/rude that they enter, inquire and just leave/about face then straight to the door .... and left you duh? :?

Yes if you own a shop then you have to address your customers as Sir or Mam. This is because in business it is the customers who are giving money. As I've stated in another post, customers are the true bosses so they have to be treated as such. No customer = no income.

So yes obviously you are right to call your customers such. But in terms of dealing with people who are not customers then there is no need to address them that way.

For example, right now we are talking to each other but there is no need for you to call me Sir Burnout because it is not appropriate since I'm not your boss or your customer.

When I first came to this forum many were addressing each other as Sirs and I was so shocked. I mean, it's wrong. I know people are trying to be polite but there is a right way to be polite.

Honestly, here's my view of the two situatuations.

At my shop, yep yer very right, they should be greeted with respect and attention coz without them, my shop won't be that good.

Vice versa? If i'm the client? I don't look at it that way, I do lower my pride as much as possible when facing the owner of the establishment with smiles and straight to the point queries .... unless he starts to be rude or arrogant to his/her clients/to me then i'll start to be cranky. ;)

That is cool of you Wolver. :)

Likewise Burnout. :)

I've been called by every name under the sun, but when I'm in Pinas I get called Sir! :O

At every establishment that I went to in Pinas, the people kept calling me sir and I kept asking them to not call me sir. Funny thing is, they don't seem to understand why. Perhaps I'm missing something. :rolleyes:

In the UK, introducing yourself by your first name to someone you don't know is a sign of saying like 'Feel at home' or a sign of friendliness. If the person gives his/her first name then you call the person by that name. If a person gives his/her surname then you call the person Mr. or Ms Smith for example.
The idea of calling someone by their first name is to bring the barrier down whatever position each person holds. It creates a relax atmosphere in a conversation, yet each one knows what position they hold in a company.
Initially addressing someone you don't know by Sir/Madam is is a sign of respect, but saying it everytime you utter something is taking a piss! :O To me being called sir is iritating... It makes me feel awkward as if I'm being forced to be above the other person instead of being equal.
Some people enjoy that sort of treatment :O I say shove that :I up where the sun don't shine :W

Mademoiselle Burnout, may I be knighted too? Me jiz like the title but don't call me Sir ok? :O :k

Mademoiselle Burnout, may I be knighted too? Me jiz like the title but don't call me Sir ok? :O :k

Why sure. But first you have to do something VERY big for the country. Go change the oil on your bike, then we'll talk.

:O :O :O

What I really hate is those shop assistants in big stores like ShoeMart and Rustans who are all over you when you walk in and follow you around offensively infringing on your personal space breathing down your neck, then when you ask a question half the time they have no product knowledge anyway. I don't call that customer service I call it being a pest.

I usually tell 'em bog off, if I need you I'll call you. I wonder what daft training scheme they get which tells them to behave in such an irritating way. I don't want to be called Sir, Milord or any other damn thing, you don't have to smooch all over me with "Good morning sir, welcome to XXXX, or thank you for coming, that's meaningless -- for Chrissake hire staff who KNOW what they are talking about, are HELPFUL and think OUTSIDE a problem.

For example if they don't have what I want don't give me that famous excuse "out of stock", suggest an alternative. I have even dealt with counter staff who are so tamad they tell me for example "out of stock" when the damn item I want is right behind them on the shelf!

Interesting views from different cultures here:) The experience of Botchix is just like mine. I felt awkward for a while being called Sir, even by my wife's friends and family.

If I remember right it was the three months or so I spent in Thailand that really made me understand the culture of the Philippines. In Thailand there are very strict rules of ettiquette relating to your position and age, etc. Breaking those rules by following the English way to be friendly makes them feel very uncomfortable.

Like I said, Over the years I have come to believe that the Sir and Po, etc is a very good thing, especially for children. It becomes a very big problem when crooks and corrupt people are encouraged to continue their ways because people still give them respect they don't deserve.

Old people in Europe tend to get pushed aside and people forget the wisdom they may have due to years of experience. They are rarely given much respect. This is very sad.

I see a similar problem in the Filipinos amazing ability to adapt and make the best of what they have. I have been many places and never come accross any other race that can do it like Filipinos can. Unfortunately this also has a negative side because the people will put up with far too much from currupt politicians, etc and just accept it.

Hehehehehe .... I hope its just fine calling you guys Mr then. :D

.... but saying it everytime you utter something is taking a piss! ......
Yep.

Sometimes, my friends call me "Sir Farts-a-lot" :banana:

Hehehehehe .... I hope its just fine calling you guys Mr then. :D
Pre, Teds is what everyone calls me. A friend here somehow put an 's' on my name, Dunno why? :O
Not Mr Teds, ok? :O
Sometimes, my friends call me "Sir Farts-a-lot" :banana:
:O :O
That's cool! Imagine if your name is Raul! :eek:
You'll be called Siraulo! :O :k

:O...........

Sometimes, my friends call me "Sir Farts-a-lot" :banana:

What a coincidence. My wife calls me Frankfarter :f

Like I said, Over the years I have come to believe that the Sir and Po, etc is a very good thing, especially for children. It becomes a very big problem when crooks and corrupt people are encouraged to continue their ways because people still give them respect they don't deserve.

Old people in Europe tend to get pushed aside and people forget the wisdom they may have due to years of experience. They are rarely given much respect. This is very sad.

I see a similar problem in the Filipinos amazing ability to adapt and make the best of what they have. I have been many places and never come accross any other race that can do it like Filipinos can. Unfortunately this also has a negative side because the people will put up with far too much from currupt politicians, etc and just accept it.

Not to patronize you or anything but I appreciate a lot your views of us, positive and negative alike. I am truly grateful for people like you and Growler who do their share in helping us Pinoys improve our plight.

I guess this makes one a true knight (heralded or not). Whatever... you have my gratitude and respect.

Not to patronize you or anything but I appreciate a lot your views of us, positive and negative alike. I am truly grateful for people like you and Growler who do their share in helping us Pinoys improve our plight.

I guess this makes one a true knight (heralded or not). Whatever... you have my gratitude and respect.

We may sound like we think we know all the answers - we don't

And it may seem like our country doesn't have problems - it does.

It is simply a case of being able to stand on the outside looking in where you can sometimes see more clearly than those more directly involved. I have been away from my country for 32 years and can now see problems there I never saw before. The same applies to Filipinos who have been away from the Philippines for a long time.

I hope what we say is seen for what it is - constructive critism to try to help. I find it so frustrating that a country that has so much allows it to be wasted and corrupted.

.......It is simply a case of being able to stand on the outside looking in where you can sometimes see more clearly than those more directly involved. ..............
Its like a chess game at the park, when I am one of those "watchers", I seem to see it clearly that the player is executing some wrong moves .... but when I start to play it, I am as good as a novice and not realizing what's really happening. :D

Its like a chess game at the park, when I am one of those "watchers", I seem to see it clearly that the player is executing some wrong moves .... but when I start to play it, I am as good as a novice and not realizing what's really happening. :D


That's true (sir?) (Mr. Abenes?). So if you're playing chess then you have to stand and let someone to do the move, just tell him/her what to do. :O

It is simply a case of being able to stand on the outside looking in where you can sometimes see more clearly than those more directly involved. I have been away from my country for 32 years and can now see problems there I never saw before. The same applies to Filipinos who have been away from the Philippines for a long time.

Agree but the huge difference that some "outsiders" make is that they *act* (big or small) on the issues besides *looking* from the outside.

I find it so frustrating that a country that has so much allows it to be wasted and corrupted.

Indeed and I believe it will take a collective, passionate and positive effort for the insiders to effect significant changes to their country. I can only wish there are more knights in the country today to make this happen.

Interesting views from different cultures here:) The experience of Botchix is just like mine. I felt awkward for a while being called Sir, even by my wife's friends and family.



I think certain people concentrate too much on culture that they lose touch of what is essential. Politeness is good, but can it pay the house rent? No.

I don't give a rat's ass where I came from or where I am. I do not practice culture much. My target in life is always streamlined and direct to the point.